Vox pops from the Farm Attractions Conference 2025

In this Skip the Queue podcast episode, Paul Marden was live inside the National Farm Attraction Network Conference 2025 at Blackpool Winter Gardens. With a packed agenda and exciting exhibitors, Paul chats live from the conference floor with key industry leaders about the latest trends and innovations shaping farm attractions.

“I think farm attractions have bucked the trend of poor sales through the cost of living because we’re good value for money. Although some bigger ticket places may feel the pinch a bit, I think we represent great value for money.” –Tom Pearcy, Chairman of NFAN and Controller of Fun at York Maze

Tom is the “controller of fun” at York Maze, the UK’s most popular corn based attraction. Tom diversified from farming in 2001 with a small corn maze, and the business has quite literally grown year on year. York maze now has over 20 corn themed rides, shows and attractions. Tom was recently appointed chairman of the national farm attractions network, the representative body for the UK’s farm attraction sector.  

Helen Bull – Chief Executive Officer – The Escapade Group Ltd

“We’ve been travelling to the US and Canada and monitor that market quite closely since ’98. And that’s where the confidence has come from really, to do these major seasonal events.” –Stuart Beare, CEO of Tully’s Entertainment Group

Stuart Beare has developed Tulleys Farm into one of the UK’s best known seasonal attraction venues and operators. The Tulleys Farm Partnership includes retail, catering and venue hire.

The Tulleys Productions arm has been developed from the operational and marketing experience in the UK Halloween, Haunted and Scare attractions sector, it comprises of three key companies. Stuart’s company Screams Attractions Ltd focuses on overall event concepts, operational systems, mentoring, business planning and scare attraction design. Scream Park entertainments Ltd supports and advises on scare actor recruitment, training and management. FunFear Ltd design and install scare attraction technical solutions, from lighting, power, attraction safety through to sound.

Stuart has spoken widely at conferences and seminars in the US, Canada and the UK on Agritainment, Agri-Tourism and seasonal attractions, especially focused on the UK Scare attractions industry and the Tulleys Farm Halloween Shocktober Fest event.

On average, a member of staff under 25 is going to cost 16% more per head from April. What’s going to happen is a third of that is going to come out of people’s profit next year. A third of that is going to come from cost savings with staff efficiencies and a third of that is going to go on ticket prices is roughly how it’s going to work out.” – Phil Pickersgill, MD, Innovative Leisure

Phil Phckersgill has over 35 years’ experience in the leisure and attractions industry and has plenty left to contribute!

With a background in engineering coupled with his in depth knowledge of the industry, he founded Innovative Leisure with a vision to introduce new, adventure related products, from around the world to the UK and European markets.

Phil plays an active role in a number of the trade associations that steer the leisure industry for example: as a Chair of Trade Members (from Jan 2023) and part of the BALPPA Management Committee (British Association of Leisure Parks, Piers and Attractions) for over 14 years (and a past member of the NFAN Management Committee (National Farm Attractions Network).

Through these groups, and his extensive industry network, he is usually very close to the latest developments, issues and trends in the market.

Adam Goymour, MD, Roarr! Is one of our previous guests on the podcast.

Check out his previous episode back in 2020 with Kelly Molson.

Adam proudly involved in my family owner/operator portfolio of businesses. Which owns and operates

1. The leading day visitor attraction in Norfolk (ROARR!) West of Norwich, where it also hosts (PrimEvil) – Norfolks largest scare experience event. (UK’s Best Scream Park 🏆🥇 2024 and Visit Englands Bronze 🥉 Best Large Visitor Attraction Winner 2024)
2. A property and land owner business (Goymour Properties Limited) in Norfolk and Suffolk
3. A family-friendly countryside camping, glamping and caravan park in Banham, Norfolk (Applewood Countryside Park) Visit East of Englands Best Camping, Glamping & Holiday Park 2024 🥇🏆)
4. A wedding venue (Applewood Hall), in Banham, Norfolk
5. A well renowned estate agents based in Bury St.Edmunds, Suffolk (Goymour Homes)

Goymour Properties is the parent company which was Est.1929 and is based in Banham, Norfolk,

Aged 36, I hold a huge drive, aspiration and desire as the 4th generation of the Goymour Family business. To further innovate, enhance and grow the businesses. 

“If you’ve got toddler pages on your website, or experiences or, weddings if you can funnel them in the right areas of your site, you’re more likely to build up those audiences in the right way and actually engage with them on the right channels.” – Olly Reed, Marketing Director, Navigate

Olly Reed loves to talk about himself in the third person (see). Over the last fifteen years, he has built vast experience in tourism and conservation brands from startups, in-house teams, and now, Navigate. Olly is the driving force behind Navigate’s growth and supports Navigate’s clients in developing their digital presence and solidifying commercial evolution while expanding Navigate’s impact in the industry.

What will you learn from this podcast?

• Farm Attractions Overview
• Farm Attraction Sector Trends
• Diversification and Challenges
• Events and Marketing Strategies
• Supplier Perspective and Industry Trends
• Marketing and Digital Strategies

Your host, Paul Marden

Our guests, Tom Pearcy, Chairman of NFAN & Controller of Fun at York Maze; Helen Bull, CEO of The Escapade Group; Stuart Beare, CEO of Tully’s Entertainment Group; Phil Pickersgill, MD of Innovative Leisure; Adam Goymour, MD of Roarr!; and Olly Reed, Marketing Director at Navigate

Paul Marden: Who doesn’t love a trip to see the lambs in spring at their local farm attraction? Well, it turns out lots of people do. Farm attractions are an important part of the visitor economy. 

On average, 25 million people visit a farm attraction each year. And These attractions contribute 300 million pounds annually to the rural economy. 

Today I’m at the National Farm Attraction Network conference in Blackpool. It’s a packed agenda and amazing exhibitors, so join me for some lively chat as we find out more about this vibrant sector. 

Welcome to Skip the Queue, the podcast for people working in and working with visitor attractions. I’m your host, Paul Marden, and I’m joined today by guests from across the farm attraction sector. First up is Tom Percy. 

Tom Pearcy: Yes, I’m Tom Pearcy. I’m the controller of fun at York Maze, and I’m also the chairman, co chairman of nafam, which is the National Farm Attractions Network. 

Paul Marden: Tom, we always ask our guests a icebreaker question. So very topical. We’re in Blackpool. I’d love to say it is sunny Blackpool. It’s also perishingly cold Blackpool. So it was. It was brisk on my walk into the venue this morning. But if you were to have the opportunity to sleep anywhere under the stars on a beach, where in the world would you go? 

Tom Pearcy: I’ve had a good look around Blackpool. I think probably Scarborough. Blackpool is Lancashire. We’re gonna get back home into Yorkshire. So the beach in Scarborough after a big night on the bingo. 

Paul Marden: I’m such a Southerner. All of these places, they’re just up north to me. Is there a big east west divide here? 

Tom Pearcy: There is a huge Yorkshire Lancashire thing. A lot of banter. All my friends, with Farm Attractions in Lancashire, we have a lot of exchange of banter. 

Paul Marden: Unless you’re talking to a Southerner and then you all pile in on us. 

Tom Pearcy: Yes, absolutely. 

Paul Marden: Tom, tell listeners a little bit about NFAN and the farm attractions sector more broadly. 

Tom Pearcy: Okay, yeah. So NFAN stands for National Farm Attractions Network. It is essentially a networking group, trade group, kind of representative body for farmers that have diversified into leisure. I guess one term is quite a broad church. We’ve got members here with sort of typical. I say typical farm park. Lots of animals, kind of petting stuff. A lot of them have indoor play. That’s kind of your classic farm park. And then we’ve got people like me that I’m a maze operator, so I don’t have any animals. You get people that do both. We’ve got people here with flower patches, sunflower fields, pumpkin fields. I’ve also got a big Halloween attraction, scare attraction. So we’ve got kind of a mixture of everything. 

Paul Marden: But all of it centred around that kind of diversifying the farm’s income by bringing in leisure in some sort of. 

Tom Pearcy: Absolutely. I think, I mean interestingly now there are quite a few members that have never seen a farm in their life. But I guess the attraction, you know, some people have bought a farm park or you know, added to their collection of enterprises. So we do have people that are not farmers. But there is always going to be a link with farming somewhere in that DNA. 

Paul Marden: For many attractions. Cost of living crisis really bit in last year it was a real challenging year. It impacted visitor numbers, it impacted revenues. Were farm attractions able to kind of buck the trend? 

Tom Pearcy: Yeah, I think so. I mean farmers by their very nature are resilient anywhere. We’re used to all sorts of challenges. When you’re farming your life is dominated by the patterns of the weather and harvest yields grow and down the work and you know, tourism. Everyone’s diversified to try and de risk their farm but moved into something that’s pretty much as volatile. Certainly farm attractions, the weather affects them greatly. But yeah, with the cost of living and everything else I would say that we’re relatively good value for money. I think the farm attraction sector. So although you know, some bigger ticket places may feel the pinch a bit, I think we represent great value for money. The ticket prices are generally sub or around £20 and that could be a full day’s entertainment. 

So compared to a full on theme park or something, you know, it’s probably more affordable. And it’s that younger age group where we find, you know, demographics is kids from 4 up to about 10 or 12 in that region is where most people are aiming demographically and they’re the people that need to get out. The kids are pain in the ass at home. Teenagers, take it or leave it. And now with all the social media stuff and games at home, it’s a different market. But those kids of that age are a pain in the ass by week four of the summer holidays. So people do want to get out with them.

So yeah, I mean certainly over the last year I think chatting to all the members, everyone’s had a pretty good year. So nobody’s squeaking about it at the minute. I think, you know, this year, maybe another year that’s going to be more painful and we’ll see what happens. 

Paul Marden: Well, we’re going to see the impact of national Insurance, aren’t we? These are people, heavy businesses, aren’t they? So that’s going to be. That’s going to be tough. Tough for them, I guess. 

Tom Pearcy: Yeah. But there’s also a lot of family labour involved. These are farms. So we’ll just get breeding. 

Paul Marden: What does the outlook look like for the year ahead? What’s interesting and happening? 

Tom Pearcy: I mean, I think what we’re seeing in the farm attraction sector, certainly the event side of things seems to be growing. So everyone sort of moved from just doing a standard. I think we do. Lots of people have moved through Covid. I think a lot of people have moved away from 12 month opening. I think it made people realise that you don’t need to open your farm every day of the year, which typically a lot of people have done. And that’s part of the reason why the indoor play centres came into it, because it’s cold and wet in the winter. So what we’re going to do, we’ll build something indoors for them to go into. But even then people are realising now that they operate at a loss for a lot of the time. 

So people have started shutting things down through Covid and then that’s kind of come out of COVID and have said, actually, you know, we don’t, let’s just shut rather than operate at a loss. And then, you know, the flip side of that is all, what else can we do to make up for that period? We were shut and a lot of people have then moved into events. Whether that’s, you know, just. Just a brief pumpkin. Yeah, the classic one at the minute is huge growth in pumpkin patches and that’s kind of stuff that’s come over from America and that’s, you know, grown massively. 

Paul Marden: Yeah. 

Tom Pearcy: In the last couple of years, sunflowers, wildflowers, all these sort of things and new events that are popping up. 

Paul Marden: I can feel over my shoulder our friends from Tulleys who are about to join me for a conversation. And we’ll be talking about tulips. Tulips are a thing coming up to bring your events into springtime. So yeah, there’s lots of opportunities on there for diversification for you to be able to sweat the asset. But then, interesting, were seeing James Sinclair talking about his farm parks and talking about his reducing the operating hours. Just not. You want to sweat the asset as much as you can. But why stay open when it doesn’t make sense, when it’s not commercially viable? Save everybody the stress and then focus your attention. 

Tom Pearcy: That’s kind of the background I came from the maize bays. I’m limited to the corn goes planted in April, May, it’s not big enough to walk around until July and then it sort of starts to die back in September. So classically is the summer holidays. And everyone said, you know, because I ended up buying a farm, I’m a tenant farmer by trade, I’m buying a farm to move this to and sort of threw my lot into this and said, right, I’ll have to make this work because I borrowed a lot of money to make it all come to fruition. And yeah, it was interesting that a lot of people said, well, you need to turn it into a farm park. You need an indoor play centre, you need to do this, you need to do that. 

I’d already been running the maze for a few years and I realised how good it could be if we really maximise that short period. So we’ve sort of added attractions and made it a full day out. The dwell time, our maze is now six and a half hours is average stay. So people are there for a full day and we ram them in. We’ve made it a big park. We have a lot of capacity on all the rides and activities so we can put 4,000 people a day through and everyone’s enjoying it and we really maximise the period we’re open and then we shut the doors and that’s it.

And we still keep all the management team in place and they’re doing other stuff and going on holiday, but we’re paying full time salaries. But we’re only open. We do seven weeks in the summer, two weeks at Halloween, so we’re open for nine weeks a year and the. 

Paul Marden: Rest of the time the team are just on the golf course enjoying themselves. 

Tom Pearcy: Well, that’s what I think, but they will tell you otherwise. 

Paul Marden: Next up, I’m joined by Helen Bull, the CEO of the Escapade Group. We always ask our podcast guests a icebreaker question. I’ve got one for you which is very on theme for NFAN conference. When you’re going to a farm attraction, what is the animal that you’ll go and seek out to go and pet or feed if you can do it? 

Helen Bull: Oh, well, there’s lots of them that I like. I am drawn to pigs in terms of. I just love the way they sort of snuffle in the mud. I love the curly tails. I like the different varieties you get. Yeah, they just look like happy animals. And you know, if I’m driving Along the road you see this, all the little pig huts. You know, you just think, there’s that little community. It does, yeah. 

Paul Marden: Helen, tell us a little bit about Escapade Group and your role in at Escapade. 

Helen Bull: Yeah, so I’ve been at the Escapade Group for just over three months, so a new role for me and a new role for the company as well, which is exciting. And the Escapade Group is basically six attractions in five locations. So we have two indoor soft play, our kids spaces, and we have two farm park attractions with both indoor soft play and outdoor soft play. We also have Gripped, which is an aerial adventure park, which is very exciting. Lots of zip wires and treks and things. And then we also have Watermouth Castle down in Devon, which is quite a quirky place, but it has fantastic gardens and again, lots of, you know, play and interactive elements as well. 

Paul Marden: And that’s quite new for Escapade Group, isn’t it? 

Helen Bull: It is about 18 months ago that we acquired that, so we had a fantastic first full year. Quite a captive audience in the summer there, particularly with all the holiday parks and, you know, tourists that go down there as well. 

Paul Marden: Is there anything that you’re doing that extends that season? Are you doing events and things like that to try and captivate people? 

Helen Bull: Yep. So I think, like a lot of attractions, you know, it’s about how you diversify, how you get that sort of incremental spend out of people. And we did the Scare event at Watermouth, which was great, and obviously that was a much older audience than our family audience tends to be. And then also at Hobble Down Heath, we did pumpkins for the first time last. October, which went really well, actually. And again, I think the interesting thing about that was in the daytime you did have that sort of family and toddler audience, but in the evenings we did some. Some lates, as it were. You actually got quite a different demographic. You know, it was much more sort of couples date nights, Instagrammers, definitely. So some interesting outfits as well. But they loved the, you know, the sort of photo opportunities. 

And, you know, I think that’s, you know, really interesting for us in terms of effectively being able to have kind of two tickets, really, one for the day and then one for the evening. And we also saw with, you know, with that event that we saw incremental visitors to the main Hobble Down Heath site as well. So, you know, have that benefit as well. And they all love their marshmallows, so we couldn’t keep up with the marshmallows. 

Paul Marden: Well, there’s a lesson to learn the next year. 

Helen Bull: Much more stuff. Definitely a way to go. And we’ve got a new exciting event this year, so we’re trying Tulips, Tulip Festival for the first time. So obviously, fingers crossed that all those tulips come up. 

Paul Marden: Oh, yeah. 

Helen Bull: But I think that should be really exciting again, I think in the sort of, you know, local location where we are in Hounslow, actually, that sort of Asian market will really be attracted with the flowers as well. So, yeah, you know, I think lots of opportunities to attract people, different types of audiences. 

Paul Marden: Absolutely. So, Helen, your background is at Merlin, isn’t it? 

Helen Bull: That’s correct. 

Paul Marden: So you’ve gone from a long career at Merlin in this big corporate, and now you’ve moved into this new role at Escapade. So let’s think about an organisation like Merlin compared to a smaller group with the farm attractions that you’ve got within Escapade. Where do the similarities exist and where are the real key points of difference? 

Helen Bull: I think definitely for me, and one of my deciding factors is about quality of product. You know, I guess coming from a sales and marketing background, you’ve got to believe in the product. And I think, you know, Merlin have some fantastic attractions and brands and IPs as well as, you know, when I saw the Escapade offering, I was actually really excited by that because there’s a lot of detail there. There’s a lot of quality and, you know, you think that’s the sort of thing that you’re proud to talk about to your, you know, your friends and family. Of course. I think the other thing is that passion, you know, for the industry. And actually, whether you’re in a big attraction or a small attraction, people who work in the leisure industry have that passion. 

Helen Bull: You know, they all want it to succeed, they all invested in it, they all make friends. It’s like a, you know, sort of. Especially with the sort of Gen Z, it’s like a social club, really. That’s where they meet their friends and, you know, go out with people and things. And, you know, I think those are the absolute similarities, you know, that go from one. One attraction to the other. I think, you know, so different to that is, I guess Merlin has a lot of infrastructure, you know, so there’s always somebody that you can call or departments. You know, obviously it’s quite heavy on the sort of the. The number of people that are employed there and, you know, something like the Escapade group is a lot leaner and needs to be, obviously, because we’re a different type of attraction. 

Helen Bull: And that’s both, you know, sort of something that’s really, you know, really exciting and actually really beneficial, as much as sometimes it can be. Oh, if only I had another person that could help me with that. 

Paul Marden: Yeah. 

Helen Bull: So it’s a lot more, you know, you get involved a lot more, which I think is good because you’re nearer to what’s actually happening at the coal face, versus, I think, not saying that I was, but, you know, you can tend to be a bit in your, you know, kind of ivory tower if you’re not careful. 

Paul Marden: Completely. 

Helen Bull: And certainly the people who worked in the central departments were, you know, and actually what happens at the coal face when you’ve got guests or things not working, or actually just seeing that sort of joy on people’s faces as they go around your attractions, you know, that’s what we all get up for. 

Paul Marden: Yeah, completely. Completely. I think when you get those big teams, you do end up with lots of specialists. Yeah. Once you shrink down, then people have to be a generalist, I should say. 

Helen Bull: What I’m loving is, you know, that you can just make the decision, you know, with Merlin, you have to go through a number of people or a number of different sort of milestones, versus we can just make the decisions of how do we want to grow our businesses and get on with it, you know, which is, you know, enables us to be really agile and really flexible and, you know, take advantage of things that are happening in the marketplace very quickly if we want to. 

Paul Marden: So where do you see the next nine months, then? What are the key challenges that you see coming up and what are the opportunities that you’re seeing? 

Helen Bull: Well, I think we’re all hoping that it’s going to better year than last year. Last year, you know, having been in the industry for nearly 20 years, was probably one of the toughest and actually in some ways even tougher than Covid. 

Paul Marden: Yes. 

Helen Bull: Because at least, you know, there was a sort of a plan for that at the moment. You know, whether it’s the economy, whether it’s, you know, wars abroad, whether it’s the weather, we’re obviously seeing more extreme weather. I think we just don’t. That doesn’t seem to have a pattern anymore. 

Paul Marden: No. 

Helen Bull: And so it is having to be, you know, once you’ve got your strategy and your plan for the year, it’s actually having to be very flexible and agile, depending on the trading conditions. And I think that’s quite a change for us all. But, you know, we’ve got some fantastic new events, as I mentioned earlier, tulips and, you know, the growth of pumpkins. And we’re also putting pumpkins into our site at Hobble Down Epsom as well, which is really exciting. Growing on our Christmas, you know, event, we had a really successful Christmas and, you know, who knew that, you know, you needed more Santa’s grottoes, But we do. So, you know, I think events is becoming a real part of the calendar and, you know, that’s really exciting. 

Paul Marden: If you’ve spent any time in the attraction sector, then you surely will have heard of Tulleys and their amazing Halloween and pumpkin inspired events. 

Stuart Beare: So I’m Stuart Beare, CEO of Tulleys Farm, Tulleys Entertainment Group, and also Tulleys Growing Inspired, which is a second company that we run. Tulleys is purely an events business now. Its background was in actually pick your own. We were a pick your own farm through the 70s and 80s. We’re located near Crawley, Gatwick down in West Sussex. So we’re right in that kind of south London, South Coast M23 corridor. The business evolved out of pick your own into a farm shop. We had a farm shop in the early 90s. That was started then. That was my first. I joined the business and basically set up a farm shop. So were looking at ways to try and attract people to a farm shop that was in a little backwater close to Crawley. 

But were only at that point a seasonal pick your own business that kind of sat alongside it. So we need to do other stuff to get people out. So we added a pumpkin festival in the mid-90s that’s now grown into Shocktoberfest and the huge pumpkin farm that we have, we had a very small Christmas event and that has grown from like a single Santa that was my dad one year doing it into the Christmas experience that we do as a daytime kids visit. We added the Maize Maze, which opened up another. The other side of the farm. So that was basically two farms joined together.

So on the other location, which is half a mile away, the Maize Maze, opened that up for leisure. It had been strawberry fields and raspberry fields and things. That’s where we have now the pumpkin farm, the tulip event. And we also developed a Christmas lights festival this last season on that same location. So it’s pretty much 50 now between. Between the two sites, what goes on. 

Paul Marden: But very much focused on the event side. You’re not going for. 365 day a year opening, you want to concentrate your effort on those events. 

Stuart Beare: So the events took over the Farm Shop. So when we had the Farm Shop open with the big events going on, the shop was really quiet because the people that were shopping with us couldn’t avoided it because it was too busy. So we ultimately closed that in 2014, so 10, just over 10 years ago, to make way for the events business. And the anchor of that is Shocktoberfest, which is. We’re into our 29th year this year with a Halloween scare event. Tulleys was pretty much first to market and that’s actually what we try and do. 

Paul Marden: Right. 

Stuart Beare: We try and get first to market with stuff. 

Paul Marden: How. Where does the inspiration, where does the innovation come from? 

Stuart Beare: The insight? There’s a bit of an eye into the future by travelling out to the US and Canada and monitoring that market quite closely. So we’ve been travelling out there since ’98 most years. Myself or some of the team go to a conference out there, which is their ag tourism conference. And that’s where the confidence has come from really, to kind of do these fairly major seasonal events. But what we like is a start and finish. So you’ve got. You’re on point when you open. 

Paul Marden: Yep. 

Stuart Beare: You run it for a month, you’re pretty like on the edge. By the time you get it finished, it closes, you mop up, crack into the next one and that. That cycle repeats itself quite well. 

Paul Marden: But you’ve diversified by bringing in springtime. So you’ve got your tulips now, just recently. 

Stuart Beare: Yeah. 

Paul Marden: Is that a stressful wait for the buds to pop up? 

Stuart Beare: I think so. We’re fairly relaxed. Last year it was because we didn’t know what was going to happen. We planted these things in November, wettest winter on record. Had no idea what, whether they were going to grow or anything. So we marketed it, we came to market with it quite late, but the response was great and it’s certainly something that we’re looking to develop now for our spring season. Two years ago, I didn’t even realise we wanted to do a spring season. 

Paul Marden: Next up, I’m joined by Phil Pickersgill, the MD of Innovative Leisure. I think it’s really important to understand the experience of these sorts of events from the point of view of the suppliers. So over to Phil. 

Phil Pickersgill: So we’ve been around this industry for 25 years now. The company’s Innovative Leisure and we’re based in Leicester. We do a lot of work in the uk, and despite Brexit, we are still busy in mainland Europe. It’s just a little bit harder. But we help a lot of people with big projects. There’s some big famous ones around the country, like the Bear Grylls at the NEC that were involved with for years and historically, over time, our best customer that most people would know would be Centreparks. 

Paul Marden: Oh, wow. 

Phil Pickersgill: And we also deal with lots of schools, lots of scout groups, big scout camps away, like residential adventure sites. And we’re known in this group for a lot of the adventure equipment that we add to farm parks. 

Paul Marden: Excellent. You’ve got quite an association over time with NFAN. So tell me a little bit about that. What’s your involvement with the organisation? 

Phil Pickersgill: So I probably got involved with this group about 15 years ago and that was just a natural meeting in some of the national trade shows. I think it was actually Leisure Industry Week. And so we installed a couple of climbing walls and a couple of other smaller projects and then I realised that it was worth getting involved with NFAN specifically. And then I joined the committee about 12 years ago, made a lot of really good friends, learned a lot about this group and how their co dependency practise works for animals to interact with the public safely. And then we just got deeper and deeper. So now we’ve probably got 30 or 40 customers in the hall. 

Paul Marden: Oh, wow. 

Phil Pickersgill: And there are probably 300 farm park operations in the country. Obviously a percentage of them come to an event like this. But what is unique about this group, I would say, is they’re all completely transformed, transparent with each other and swap best practise. They ring each other up and help each other and I would say actually they probably share their numbers with each other. 

Paul Marden: Wow. 

Phil Pickersgill: Which in a lot of other sectors. 

Paul Marden: You would never see that. 

Phil Pickersgill: No, it would all be, you know, guarded. And so this, for me, really, this event is a bit of a reunion now. And it. And it, you gotta try and not stay out too late because there’s another night, the next night. So I always say this is a marathon, not a sprint. 

Paul Marden: So you’re here exhibiting. What do you get out of it? As a supplier coming to an event like this? 

Phil Pickersgill: Because we’ve got quite a lot of existing customers. It’s a really good chance touch base. It’s also a chance for those people who’ve got to know us on, say, a smaller project to then float their ideas of what they’d like to do in the next year or two on maybe a large project which is the evolution that often happens. What’s also amazing with these farm parks is I met them when they were doing 30,000 or 40,000 visitors. Some of them now have gone to over 200. Well, that’s getting to the size of a small theme park. 

Paul Marden: Yes, absolutely. 

Phil Pickersgill: So we also still, and we just have done in the last half an hour, meet people who we don’t know. So I’ve just met a group of people from a farm park in the Midlands who only an hour from us at home and we’ve never really spoken to them. And so that does happen as well, which makes it a nice afternoon. 

Paul Marden: Excellent. What it is that you guys do, you’re installing these kind of play equipment, play frames, climbing activities for kids, attractions. That’s not a trivial investment, is it, for an organisation? That’s that for many of these farm parks, this is going to be a serious investment for them. Are you seeing that is being affected by them having tough years or is it the case that they use these things as a way to bolster their offering and so they’re still carrying on investing? 

Phil Pickersgill: Well, that’s a big onion you’ve started peeling now. So let me give you a couple of different answers to that. At the beginning of all of this, what we supply is mostly harnessed adventure. So this is quite specialist. It’s putting people in a safety harness, connecting them with the carabiner and then they either go one of our high ropes or climbing walls. So we get really into the training, the inspections and all that side of it. The reason why people come to us for that rather than regular pay equipment is because there’s starting to reach the boundaries of the age group that’s attending. Okay, so they’re getting to 8 year olds and now they want something for older brother or sister. Yeah, that makes sense. 

Paul Marden: Yeah, totally. 

Phil Pickersgill: Yeah. So they’re then looking at their existing model. Now, to answer the later part of your question and just go back to the economics talk that we had this morning, which was fantastic. There is trouble at the mill and the October budget hasn’t helped. On average, a member of staff under 25 is going to cost 16% more per head from April. And this is tough, but I do talk to everybody and I do listen and learn at a lot of the national committees that I sit on.

And roughly what’s going to happen is a third of that is going to come out of people’s profit next year. A third of that is going to come from cost savings with staff efficiencies and a third of that is going to go on ticket prices is roughly how it’s going to work out. And we’ve heard about Sainsbury’s last week. It’s not just these guys. 

Paul Marden: No. 

Phil Pickersgill: You know, it’s going to hit so many retailers as well, and hospitality sectors. So I feel particularly sad that we haven’t seen much of the growth that was promised, but we have had the taxes. What we could probably do with now is more growth and let’s hope things move ahead in the next few months. 

Paul Marden: And are you optimistic in terms of. It’s fair to say that the attractions, farm attractions especially, have experienced some growth. You know, many of them have had positive stories over the last couple of years when many other attractions have been challenged. Is it an opportunity for you maybe to be able to install more equipment and get into these farm parks and be able to help them to extend their reach? 

Phil Pickersgill: Yeah. So when you’re talking about the last budget and the economy generally, then you tend to take a holistic view of the whole thing. Within that, at the individual level, there’s lots of success happening, there is lots of growth, and this particular sector of farm parks is growing a lot quicker than other leisure sectors. Within that, there are opportunities for us. If somebody was looking at spending half a million, that now might be 200,000, that’s still good business for us.

And that might then help them grow their radius of people that travel to them because they’ve got something else to talk about. It gives them marketing collateral for the next year and it might help them with age groups and with the way that guests flow around the facility. There’s a lot going on under the bonnet of the industry. We just got a slightly stronger headwind. 

Paul Marden: Like many farm attractions, the Goymour Group is a family affair. And I’m joined now by Adam Goymour, the fourth generation of his family, to take part in running attractions. And I’m joined now by Adam Goymour, the fourth generation of his family, to take part in running attractions. 

Adam Goymour: Hi, I’m Adam Goymour. I am the director of the Goymour group, which involves raw, the UK’s number one dinosaur themed adventure park, Applewood Countryside park and Applewood Hall. I am the director of the Goymour group, which involves raw, the UK’s number one dinosaur themed adventure park, Applewood Countryside park and Applewood Hall. 

Paul Marden: Adam, it has been a few years since you were on the podcast. What’s been happening since you were with us last? 

Adam Goymour: Wow. A lot. So since then we’ve had Covid. We then had 2021, which is a fantastic year with all the support from government. But since then we, you know, everybody in the industry has gone through a very tumultuous time, especially with, what can we say, Inflation, interest rates, it’s all about been about survival, really? Yeah, absolutely. And now it’s about succession planning and growth moving forward. 

Paul Marden: What does that future look like then, for the group? 

Adam Goymour: I think it’s about refocus or refocusing what we’re doing, why we’re doing it and when we should be doing it. Because like most tourism businesses, we’ve now got a six figure sum added to our bottom line of cost, so that’s not too great. However, we’ve got to diversify. It’s looking at the team. You’ve got restructuring, re, changing roles, jobs, what that looks like, adding further value to the consumer, who may not have as much money in their pocket as they think because of mortgage rates at the moment. But hopefully if interest rates come down by one to one and a half percent by the end of this year, that should help them. So really what we’re looking at is a lot of diversification into how we bring people to the park and different audiences to the part that have got the money as well. 

Paul Marden: How do you do that? 

Adam Goymour: So, for example, we run Primaeval, which won the UK’s best screen park last year, 2024. 

Paul Marden: Awesome. 

Adam Goymour: Which we’re really proud of. So it’s taken 15 years to grow that and that’s now our second most profitable and busiest month of the year. So it’s working on events such as that attract a different audience and we utilise the skill sets that we’ve got in our team to look at further ways we can attract people to the park. 

Paul Marden: Any other events that you’re looking at running at different times of the year? I know I’ve spoken to two people already that have got tulip festivals, which I didn’t know was a thing. 

Adam Goymour: Yeah. So to say a bit about upper countryside parks, that’s based behind Banham Zoo, which we’re the landlords of, and my father started in 1968 and we purchased the other zoo that’s part of Zee, the Zoological Society of East Anglia, in 1991. So we’ve been running Christmas for a few years, so we’ve been really growing that over time. And we’ve got a new idea which is not common knowledge at the moment, so in due course there’ll be some more news on that. However, we’re looking to extend our Christmas experience in a way that other known quantities have been doing really well and we can see a gap in the market for us to jump on that. Other things we do really well is like Easter. So we’ve got a really big Easter event we own our own IP themed mascot characters as well. 

Adam Goymour: So we’re utilising them in February and Easter where it’s a lot more turbulent with the weather. So actually we utilise our indoor spaces, those characters to kind of use them in a different way. 

Paul Marden: Amazing. 

Adam Goymour: And in the summertime, we run evening events, like single evening events, which are really popular. So we kind of. It’s got multifaceted in how we run those events. 

Paul Marden: Brilliant. Look, Adam, it’s been lovely to catch up with you, I’m sure, listeners. I will point them back to the original episode that you’re on so that they can listen to the lovely Kelly interviewing you and finding out more about what you do. It’s been great to talk to you today. 

Adam Goymour: Thank you. Thank you. Cheers. 

Paul Marden: And lastly, I’m joined by Olly Reed. 

Olly Reed: My name is Olly Reed. I’m the marketing director for Navigate. 

Paul Marden: And what is it that Navigate does? 

Olly Reed: Oh, good question. We are a marketing consultancy for purpose driven visitor destinations, basically. So if you want people to come to a place and you do it for a good reason, then, yeah, come talk to us. 

Paul Marden: So, icebreaker question. 

Olly Reed: Oh, okay. 

Paul Marden: So when you’re going to a farm attraction, do you want to go and find yourself in the coffee shop and leave everyone else to go and feed the animals, or are you straight in there and every possible animal under the sun, you want them all over you? 

Olly Reed: I could not be the more opposite of the coffee shop. I am literally front of the queue pushing all the kids out the way. If they’re like, oh, is anyone’s birthday today? That’s me. I’ll pretend it’s my birthday to feed anything. Touch all the rabbits, all the pigs. Yeah, that’s a bit of me. Yeah. Love animals. 

Paul Marden: So your very good friend and boss Anthony has been here at NFAN, talking about marketing strategies for attractions for the coming year. So I want to talk a little bit about that. And I know Anthony’s story is a little bit of a tale of two halves, so he has been talking a little bit, especially online on LinkedIn, about last year was a tough year for a lot of attractions. But interestingly, in the conversations I’ve been having here, that many of the. farm attractions haven’t experienced that they’re kind of. They are a price point and a value for money proposition that lots of people can do. You’re not talking about 150 quid to go and do a day trip. It might be a morning that you do, but it’s a much more affordable option. 

But that being said there is still a need for farm attractions to be resilient and competitive in the year ahead because we know that there’s lots of headwinds coming, there’s increased costs of staffing and what is it that Navigate is talking about, people thinking about to provide that resilience? 

Olly Reed: So I think for a long time, and so my background was at the National Marine Aquarium. I was kind of head of marketing there for some time. And when I was there, our core offer, obviously come look at sharks and fish was great. However, what we realised was we had a building which for certain parts of the day wasn’t in use, but still had costs. We had staff that were on the books all year round, but were only busy in the summer holidays. So what we started to do, and actually in tangent with Navigate and kind of what we’re seeing more with Navigate now, is that you’ve got to diversify your offer because I think the way that people engage with visitor, attractions, brands, destinations has dramatically changed since. 

Since COVID Yeah, I think Covid pushed us all online and our relationship with tech and entertainment because of Netflix and everything’s changed. So I think that attractions, farm parks, destinations, kind of need to basically address that as well. So diversify, not just being a day trip, but maybe experiences after hours, behind the scenes, tours, weddings, events, memberships, donations, whatever it is, finding that niche where actually maybe a bolt on in a certain area could increase revenue without having to increase visitors. 

Paul Marden: Yeah. Sweat the asset that you’ve got by doing something different. So one of the talks this morning was James Sinclair talking about his farm attraction and he was talking about kind of the business model that people use and diversification and how running a farm park, you can run an amazing farm park, and that’s a good model, but a farm park with a nursery on the side of it, or there’s an interesting model because you’ve now you’re making use of the assets at different times of the week or different times of the year. 

Olly Reed: Just to clarify, is that a nursery for baby animals or is that. 

Paul Marden: No, no, it was Kitty’s nursery. 

Olly Reed: Sign me up to the baby goat nursery. I’m in. 

Paul Marden: That does actually sound quite fun. There we go. Yeah. So diversification. Yeah, that makes total sense. I know Anthony has talked a little bit about revisiting your value proposition. 

Olly Reed: Yeah, talk about that. 

Paul Marden: Some of these things, I think they can be quite intimidating phrases. So let’s delve into what does that actually mean for somebody? 

Olly Reed: So a value proposition, I think, is something that as an agency or as a business sometimes that can be like, oh, I need to sort out my niche, what that is. And I think for an attraction or a place, I think for so long we kind of dined out on, make memories or have a fun day out. And now because of competition, you know, decreased spending, people were like, well, yeah, but what do I actually get for that? You know, I don’t just want a nice day out because actually I can run, I can have a nice day out in my garden when the sun comes out, or I can have a nice day out in nature for free. So what are you going to offer me for however much you’re charging that is going to entice me to come to you. 

And I think one of the big things that Ant is kind of pushing as well, which I really agree with, is that for so long attractions have been marketed as this treat, as this bucket list experience. And now I think we’re kind of facing the other side of that is by saying we’re a treat and this bucket list experience, people are going, well, we’ll save that for the summer holidays or we’ll save that for later in the year for a birthday. And actually it’s trying to work out at your core, what can you offer for an everyday experience that doesn’t have to be, maybe we’ll go in six months, let’s go today instead. So, yeah, that’s the kind of value proposition kind of model we’re talking, really. 

Paul Marden: And is that fundamentally changing the way the business operates or is it thinking about how you pitch these things to people? So sometimes it’s. You don’t have to make changes in the business, do you? You just have to communicate differently. 

Olly Reed: Completely. And I think, you know that there’s. There’s two halves to that. And I think part of our job is to go in and assess that situation. Sometimes it is a bit of a change up of the business model, actually. A lot of the time, you know, there’s so many attractions here in the UK that you go to and you just have the best time, you have the best experience and you actually realise that just a tweak of the comms, maybe a bit of a digital change, or the website, the social media, just a change on what you’re showcasing of your attraction can just be the tweak that you need just to basically make you more famous. 

Paul Marden: Yeah. So revisiting that digital offer then, is something that people should be really thinking about. So once they’ve figured out what the value proposition is, looking back at your. 

Olly Reed: Digital channels and exactly And I think one thing that I was always conscious of, you know, when I was at the aquarium is that because you’re like, you know, in the trenches day to day, you know, you’re fighting fires. Not literally. It was an aquarium, there wasn’t many fires. But, you know, you’re just trying to get on with your day job. Sometimes it’s really hard to sit down, have. Well, have time to sit down, but also just assess where you currently are. And I think, you know, whether you can do it in house, whether you can carve out a bit of time for some staff to do or, you know, bring someone like navigate to do. Just assessing where you are and looking at the gaps, you know, what you’re doing. Sometimes it can be a case of actually we’re just doing too much. 

You know, we’re on every single social media channel under the sun. Maybe we just need to do two or three. And actually we’re posting seven times a week. Actually, if we only posted three, it could make the difference. Or the website’s got 4,000 pages. Let’s cut it down to a. A core offer, you know, so it’s those kind of questions that you need to ask. So, yeah, that’s what can be really important. 

Paul Marden: One of the other things that I know that you’ve posted about is about being more than an attraction. How do you do that? 

Olly Reed: Well, I think it comes back to that kind of what we’re saying a little about diversification and what I think attractions and, you know, attracting somewhere to a place. 

I get why it’s called an attraction, but I think, and I and Simon, we’re all talking about becoming a destination, you know, so rather than I go to a place for an hour and a half to kill some time, it’s. I might go there for a bit of food, I might go there to have some fun, I might go to their shop and actually their shop’s amazing, or I might go to their online shop or accommodation, you know, let’s have an overnight stay. And I think, you know, imagine treat yourself the way that Visit Britain treats, you know, the whole of the uk or, you know, treat yourself as. Visit Plymouth, for example. You go onto their website, there’s things to do, there’s places to eat, there’s places to stay. 

If you, as an attraction can start thinking like that, you’ll just change the mindset of people might want to spend more time with you, spend more money with you and ultimately, ideally, be an advocate for, you know, for your brand. For the rest of their life, things. 

Paul Marden: Begin to get really interesting for an attraction. Thinking about those digital channels, can you differentiate between whether somebody’s local to you and give them one value proposition? We’re a great place for you to come for lunch or afternoon tea in addition to being a great attraction, or if somebody is, you know, more than an hour’s two hours drive, then they’re unlikely to come for afternoon tea. But they might be very intimate interested in taking your accommodation offer and being able to personalise that pitch to them.

You begin to get into a really interesting space and instead of a lot of attractions have their tickets sold by hotels or travel agents. If they’re coming to your attraction, you know they’re coming from a distance, then you could be the one that is selling the hotel space, you know, the accommodation space. Even if you don’t have your own accommodation offer, you could still be pitching accommodation from local to you and being able to take some of that market and be that destination. 

Olly Reed: Exactly. And I think that’s the way to start thinking. And also when it comes to advertising, you mentioned a second ago, it’s like giving different creative to different audiences and sending to different parts of your website for so long. People just go, right, send to the ticket page and we’ll send, you know, 100% of people there. Actually, if you’ve got toddler pages on your website, if you’ve got experiences pages on your website, if you’ve got, you know, whatever, weddings for example, and you use different ad sets and different audiences, you can still funnel them all to the website and they might all actually end up on the same booking platform. But if you can funnel them in the right areas, you’re more likely to build up those audiences in the right way and actually engage with them on the right channels. 

Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that James Sinclair was talking about was about recognising different markets have different amounts of money. He had a, I can’t remember the silly phrase he called them, but I think it was waffles or wealthy over 50s. But they’ve got the time and they’ve got the budget and they may have grandkids appealing to them. Well, if you’re going to do that, do you want to send. 

If you’ve advertised for that, if you’ve done some clever Google Ads, not you’ve spent the money and then you send them to a page that has photography and is all about the language of when you’re appealing to mums out on a sofa on Thursday night, then your chances of being able to convert that person is much less than if you talk about what it’s like to take the kids out midweek when you’ve got the grandkids with you and photos appealing to that particular market, bring together the landing page on the website with the ads that you’ve done, then you’ve got a much better chance of being able to convert. 

Olly Reed: Completely agree. And there was a really interesting. A few years ago, the Johnnie Walker experience up in Edinburgh. I remember they did a talk. We don’t work with them, but, you know, cool brands. What they realised is the demographic that were coming in, basically there was a lack of women of a certain age, you know, young women, and they started, you know, doing some. Some research and they realise, they asked these people, you know, why aren’t they coming?

Because all the adverts don’t show anyone like them in your place. And a small tweak of just if you want to attract different audiences, diverse audiences, younger audience, whatever it is show them adverts, people like them in the adverts. It’s a simple tweak, but it’s. 

Paul Marden: Yeah, it makes rocket science. 

Olly Reed: It’s not. But yeah, exactly. You know, if you need to show people that these places are for them as well. 

Paul Marden: Yeah, completely. Look, Olly, it’s been lovely talking to you. We could go on and fill an entire episode rather than just a little vox pop from the conference for. But hasn’t it been great? 

Olly Reed: It’s been fantastic. 

Paul Marden: What a wonderful conference, what a wonderful location that we’re in. 

Olly Reed: I know, yeah. Wow. I’m in Blackpool finally, after my love of Strictly. All these years. I’ve done a bit of dancing myself. 

Paul Marden: Did you take advantage of a sprung floor? 

Olly Reed: Oh, literally. My hotel doesn’t know what hit it. Let’s just say that. 

Do you know someone we should be talking to?

Do you know someone fascinating we should be talking to?

If so, email us at hello@rubbercheese.com – we’ll get back to you shortly.

Author:

Oz Austwick

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